Watering Our Community: Youth, Health, and Climate Resilience

Atmospheric Tales: Season 5 / Episode 6

Saad Uakkas (Guest), Rosa Rantanen (Interviewer), Shahzad Gani (Host)

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Shahzad G: Welcome to Atmospheric Tales, a podcast that amplifies stories and experiences related to air pollution and climate change, from around the world.

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Shahzad G: I’m your host, Shahzad Gani, and welcome to another episode of Atmospheric Tales.

Our guest today is Dr Saad Uakkas, who is an expert in youth and organisational empowerment and engagement in climate and health. He holds a Master’s degree in public health from the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine (LSHTM), with a Chevening scholarship. With over 9 years of experience in leadership positions across global youth NGOs and networks, such as the International Federation of Medical Students’ Associations, the World Healthcare Students’ Alliance, and the African Youth Initiative for Climate Change (AYICC), he is an expert in events organisation, project management, organisational development, partnerships and fundraising, advocacy, and youth leadership. He is also a TEDx speaker, a Diana awardee, a One Young World Ambassador, a Gates Foundation Goalkeeper, and a Global Shaper. He has organised 10 global campaigns, and has led over 30 global events and conferences, including the COP27 and COP28 Children and Youth Pavilions. He is currently the AYICC Executive Chair, leading youth climate engagement across Africa.

Our interviewer today is Dr Rosa Rantanen, who is the founder of the Safer Climate network (Initiative for a Safer Climate), which brings together research, civil society and the arts. She currently works as a Research Coordinator at the Institute for Atmospheric and Earth System Research at the University of Helsinki, Finland. She wrote her Doctoral thesis on the ethical desirability of human life extension, at the University of Turku, in Finland as well. Rantanen has also worked on various interdisciplinary projects across several civil society organisations, including the Finnish Red Cross. Currently, she specialises in working not only on civil society engagement, but also themes such as climate security, climate and death, and war and its effects on climate and the environment. Her work is part of the Atmosphere and Climate Competence Center (ACCC) program.

Rosa R: Thank you, Shahzad, and thank you, for having us both here, and welcome to the show, Saad, also from me.

Saad U: Thank you, thank you, Rosa, and welcome, everyone!

Rosa R: Yeah, I’m really looking forward to this discussion. Just a little bit of background for this discussion: children and youth are often referred to as the leaders of tomorrow in the climate change discussion, but today will discuss what we can do to strengthen their participation; how can we help future generations to have the possibility for a healthy life on a healthy planet? There is a growing tendency to discuss climate change and health-related issues together. Extreme weather events, such as floods and heat waves, as well as poor air quality, are major sources of mortality and health problems around the world. There exists also growing evidence on the direct and indirect mental health effects of climate change, such as an increase in suicides and climate anxiety experienced by youth. To work at the intersection of these challenging issues, it’s necessary to find ways to nurture our resilience as individuals, communities and societies, and to set our action in the context of planetary health. To do this, we need to continue to find ways to listen and engage youth, to educate ourselves and to make space for vulnerability and care, at the heart of the climate change discussion. We will also discuss ways of engaging, especially African youth, in the climate change discussion and make sure that they are, to use Vanessa Nakate’s words, not only at the front line but also at the front page. So Saad, your work with youth empowerment, climate change and health issues is very remarkable, and in one of your talks, I heard you talking about how we need to water our community, just as a gardener would water his garden. It seems to me that you have done this by providing information and care to people in the roles of a medical professional, a youth engagement expert, a climate change activist, and in many more roles. So what would you say motivates you personally to do this work? And, this work really expands from grassroots level and clinical work to international meetings and networks; so what is your main motivation for this extensive work?

Saad U: Yeah, yeah, thank you, Rosa. And you see, the thing is, and that’s something I got to learn by time, is that today, we are at a critical moment in humanity, and in the existence of our planet. I worked as a young actor in different NGOs trying to have this passion to work with the communities, trying to help poor people, help them, educate them, support them, build their capacity, help them to have a better life basically. And then with time, I discovered that many health problems are related to pollution, are related to climate change, to heat waves, there is food insecurity. So, I started discovering about the intersection between health and climate and this is where I started engaging and getting involved in the climate space a couple of years ago, from a youth NGO perspective, being involved with different NGOs and then the more you get involved, the more risks and dangers you see the climate change is causing for our population. Today, WHO is saying that climate change is the number one disease in the world; it will be causing the most mortality, more than infectious disease, more than COVID, more than cancers. So, this is real stuff, and you know, for me, with this mission of trying to help people, trying to improve their lives, you see that livelihoods depend on climate change, agriculture depending on, lack of water, the economic stability, health, well-being; so, the developments of countries now depends on climate and environmental sustainability. So what I discovered is, you know, climate change is a very big priority for all of us. And the second thing is that, you know, the decisions that are being taken today by decision-makers, either in COP, in the negotiations, or the national policies that are being made, whatever, those, they will have the impact and the results after 5, 10, 20, 30 years, right? It’s now, the decisions, the discussions that we’re having now are the ones that are going to shape our future as young generations. So when you think about it, you’re like — okay, if I want to have a good future for my children, it’s now the moment where me as a young person who is aware about the realities, I’m in the community working with the people in the local level, I know their challenges. And, you realise that you need to be there in this decision-making space to influence the discussions, to share back the opinions, the recommendations, the needs of those local communities that you are representing, and that if you don’t do that then local communities will be left out, you as young people, your future will be at risk. So, that’s why it’s imperative for young people to be there at the decision-making level, to be there at the community level, hearing from the community, supporting the community, and playing the voice, the role of being the voice of the community. And, it’s also imperative for different stakeholders to facilitate that process, to make sure young people are there in that process, bridging between local communities and decision-makers. So, you know, that’s the motivation, that’s the process that got me involved in this, and I keep pushing now. My role is, you know, supporting, engaging young people throughout the continent, building their capacity, connecting them with partners, helping them, you know, be involved as much as they can, sharing opportunities with them so that, you know, they can keep pushing for that mission as well, because that’s the role that we need to play. And, we have the privilege of being aware, and getting opportunities to be there in those spaces, and learn about climate change, and learn about the risks and learn about the realities and the needs. So, it’s a responsibility for us to educate our peers, share with each other, and engage them accordingly so that we can do this together.

Rosa R: Hmm. I have one short specifying question for you. How do you define youth or young people in your work?

Saad U: Yeah, I mean, you know, youth is a broad definition. You, if you are motivated and engaged in your community, for me, you can be a young person. We always say that youth is the spirit. Many, many different definitions. Some people say youth are up to 25. From our context in the African continent, usually it’s 35 and under. So, anything from, you know, we have adolescents working with us, which is really interesting and important, right, when you have children or adolescents engaging with you; those people usually have the motivation, they have lived experiences, and of course, your role is to equip them with experience, with capacity, supporting them. But those young youth, I call them, they are there to remind us of ourselves, like me, I’m in my late 20s, but when you have someone who is still a child, speaking up and sharing their lived experiences, it reminds you that one day, I’m going to be a dad and those children will be my children, their future is at stake. So, that’s a very important motivation to have children, to have adolescents and to have young people also in their late 20s, in their early 30s who got their, you know, masters, PhDs, their experience, their lived life, and they’re able to use those skills to make an impact in the community.

Rosa R: Yeah, so you already touched upon the intersection between health and climate crisis. So, what do you think are the biggest climate change-related health and mental health challenges that are facing young people and children, especially in African countries at the moment? And maybe, if you could say a few words about how different communities and people in and people in “vulnerable positions” experience these effects?

Saad U: Yeah, now you know, recently in the World Health Assembly that happened in Geneva, for the first time, member states adopted a resolution about climate change impacts on health, and basically, they mandated the assembly to have WHO to make a way forward, a proposal on a global plan to address climate change impacts on health. So within the health community, it became a reality that climate change is one of the biggest threats to well-being, to health, to humanity, and it’s in many, many, many ways. You know, when you talk about food security for example now, in the continent, we’re speaking about lack of water, agriculture being jeopardised, people losing their sources of income because of lack of food and lack of productivity. So, that directly causes people to go into poverty, and then, that causes them to affect their food systems; people having less nutritive food, having less access to healthy food, causes them to have hunger, to have lack of, you know, we’re talking about non-communicable diseases, we’re talking about endocrine diseases; for example here, many people in in Morocco and North Africa, especially women, lack vitamin D, even while we do have a lot of sun and many people talk about, you know, how heatwaves, how, you know, the change of temperature and the change of also the weather is causing that, as a disease. Here, we’re talking about also weather patterns changing, causing or changing the life cycle of insects that are having, or that are bearing infectious diseases. So here we’re talking about infectious diseases such as malaria being in longer periods, or even getting into countries that are not there, so maybe, I don’t know, God forbid in the future, we can see infectious diseases such as malaria and so on, in Europe, in North Africa, in countries that didn’t exist. So, that’s also one major reality that now infectious diseases specialists are facing, that you know the infection patterns are changing massively, because of weather change. We’re talking about the effects of disasters on well-being, you know, when people have disasters, people are dying, people are losing houses, are losing lives. D isasters are causing also post-traumatic syndromes; so, we’re talking about mental health effects of disasters, and there is a lot of documentation there about people, you know, having mental health challenges even after the disaster. We’re talking about also eco-anxiety, which is a very big issue within the youth population now, you know — the fact that knowing that your future, your stability, your well-being is at risk and that 20, 30, 50 years from now you’re not sure how life is going to be. You know, especially, we’re talking about, for example, young people in the rural areas, who are losing their sources of income, which is agriculture. That instability, it causes anxiety, it causes stress, it causes depression; and many people, you know, need mental health support, because of the impacts of climate change on their lives. So, many ways that climate change is impacting the health and well-being of the population, you know, especially the children and the old people. When we talk about heat waves, when we talk about the ability to cope with extreme weather patterns; here, we’re talking about, you know, vulnerable groups that are usually not able to support that, so they are at risk. So, here, also, we’re also talking about the resilience of the community and the resilience of our system to respond to climate change effects; you know, if you are having a disaster or a flooding or heat waves, then do we have a medical and a health system who is able to respond to that? If a disaster happens, could we have our health system protected and still work? So you know climate effects on health is a very big one, and usually, what’s interesting is that when you talk about this, when you talk to policymakers, when you talk to the local populations and you tell them how you know climate change is affecting your daily life, is affecting your health, your well-being, people tend to listen. And, that’s a very big argument now that we try to use about showcasing that climate change is affecting the well-being and the health, so to make a case for people to respond faster and to engage in climate action. Using the health argument is something realistic, because you talk with a farmer, they don’t know about COVID, they don’t know about climate change, they don’t know about carbon credits, but when you tell them that, okay, if you respond to climate change or if you behave differently then you will be having your daughter or your kids or your wife having a better health or improving their well-being, etc, then, they start listening because it’s something that’s human, it’s something that’s personal. So it’s a very big argument; knowing about the health risks of climate change and the health benefits of climate action is very important.

Rosa R: As you mentioned, listening is a big part of the climate discussion, and I will read a quote from the Ugandan climate activist Vanessa Nakate, who in 2021 has said, “We have continuously seen erasure of communities that are affected the most, from rooms of decision-making, from platforms of discussion. We have seen black people being erased, being pushed aside from these conversations. We have seen indigenous communities pushed aside at these climate conversations. They are at the front line, but they are not at the front page”. So, do you agree with this statement and what do you think that we could do to support especially young people of colour and youth in indigenous communities in the climate change discussion? And, if you have any, let’s say, practical examples from your work, for example, at COP27 or COP28, you can share also those, and your reflections on what kind of changes are needed in international structures, regarding climate change discussions.

Saad U: Yeah, you know, it’s a very important discussion and I was talking about that the other day. It’s about recognising who are the most affected and vulnerable in these discussions, right? Because now, today, those global discussions, you have the private sector trying to influence the discussions, talking about carbon credit, and climate finance, and how they can make money out of it; we’re talking about governments, geopolitical parameters influencing their decisions and allyship, and seeing who will be a good ally, who can I work with, you know, a lot of factors. But then, when you think about the end goal and who’s really most affected, it’s usually those local communities, you know, people in rural areas in the mountains of Morocco or in the Moroccan Sahara, for example, not having water to feed their cattle, and thus, losing their livelihoods. People in the, for example, forests of DRC that are being affected by oil companies or that are losing their livelihoods, the trees are being lost, and they’re not able to cope with the effects of weather change or whatever. So those local communities, those indigenous communities, they are suffering from those consequences; they are living climate change, as we keep speaking. You know, like for example, rich people or politicians, they come there with their flights, and then they live in hotels, and life is good in the cities. But then those indigenous people, they are the ones who live the consequences of climate change. So, it’s about recognising that and knowing that, okay, those are people who are affected, thus, in those discussions we need to prioritise their opinion, prioritise their need, and involve them not as beneficiaries but as co-creators. So that’s when we talk about basic development principles. It’s about nothing for us without us, right? So to achieve that, to have those indigenous groups as co-creators, it’s a long process. It’s not something you can do in one day. It’s about reaching out to them. That’s number one, recognising them, and then working with them to make them identify their need. They know what’s going on. They know the challenges. They know the struggles. So it’s about giving them the space to speak up, to share their concerns; and then, it’s about capacity development for them, in order to allow them to co-create things with someone who is in the local community, either young people or indigenous groups, you know; they know about the problem, they know about the practical solutions that work in their context. And then, those people, if you empower them about, let’s say, policy writing workshop, you give them tools about, you know, technical climate-related discussions on the global level, for example, how you can be a negotiator, what’s the new collective quantified goal that’s being discussed on climate finance, what’s the global goal on adaptation; and then, you start raising their awareness, they start learning the tools and using their indigenous wisdom. Combining that wisdom with those tools that you are giving to them, this will allow them to be an asset, and to come to the decision-making table and to bring up their wisdom in a productive way, right? Because unfortunately, and that’s also a challenge, is that a lot of people, when you hear about young activists, when you hear about people on the ground, a lot of people tend to speak up, to complain, to say, no, this is wrong, this is bad. Of course, we need those complaints, we need those reality checks, but then we also need them to be combined with practical solutions, with a way forward. So, that’s why it’s important to work together with those youth groups, with those indigenous groups, empower them, build their capacity, bring them to the table, and collectively work on, you know, shaping the policy, shaping the national plan, shaping the international agenda. You know, now UNFCCC, they have a major group for children and youth, they have a major group for indigenous people, for NGOs, for women; so, those groups supposedly should be there to voice the concerns of those groups. But then, for me, it’s not enough — it’s about national delegations, things should be happening at the national level, so national delegations bringing those groups, and involving them in the process. For example, in Tunisia, what they did is, they have a national youth negotiators group — what they did is, the ministry, they brought or they selected 10 young people, they trained them throughout the year, building their capacity and involving them as negotiators in COP and in those international events on behalf of the country — so you have you know friends and colleagues who are in their 20s going there and speaking on behalf of the country, on matters related to climate finance, to adaptation, to mitigation, to technology. So, young people who are bringing their expertise and speaking up on behalf of the country, indigenous people who are doing the same; that’s the level that we want to reach. We want those groups to be there in the ministry, in the government level, discussing and shaping the policy process that’s going to be adopted, helping and taking part in the implementation, working together with the governments on the implementation, and also making sure they are there in the evaluation phase to ensure accountability. And you know, also by bringing them, you engage them in a way that they do the connecting role; so, those representatives of those communities, they ensure accountability for you as a government, as a stakeholder, and also they ensure communication and reports into those local communities, because those should be representatives of those local communities. So, they play the bridge; they bring the voices of the community to the decision-making table, and they communicate the decisions that are being made to the local communities, so that this way, there are synergies when it comes to those decisions, when it comes to implementation. And this way, we can, you know, have a collective approach into addressing the local needs, addressing the climate challenges, and you know, that’s the way things should be in an optimal scenario.

Rosa R: So, in discussions about climate change, sustainability and health, vulnerability is often seen as a social category or something to erase. So, we have also, in this discussion, referred to “people in vulnerable positions”. But on the other hand, you have said yourself that the vulnerability in all of us came out during the COVID-19 pandemic, for example. So if we look at vulnerability as our shared human experience rather than a social category in a way, do you think that we can also see it as a positive, as an opportunity to learn, to be in touch with our emotions, with our needs, and caring?

Saad U: Yeah, I mean, you know, the thing about climate change, is that it’s everywhere, you know; it’s related to economy, it’s related to geopolitics, it’s related to stability, to well-being, to gender empowerment. You know, when you have girls not being able to go to schools because of lack of water to preserve their hygiene; that’s gender empowerment. So, climate change is related to all aspects of our lives. And then, what we need at this point and what COVID is teaching us, is to humanise those climate discussions; it is recognising that it’s us versus climate change, it’s us as humanity coming together and trying to preserve our planet, and taking care of ourselves and our well-being. You know, when you look at indigenous people, the way they live in harmony with nature — it’s very fascinating, you know. People recognising and protecting and valuing nature to a certain degree, making sure nature is always, you know, taken care of; they take care of their plants, of their animals, they live in harmony, and they use the resources that nature gives them, in a circular way. You know, when we talk now about circular economy and those concepts of waste management, waste reduction; the indigenous groups and communities, they have that. You know, they rationally use the resources that they get from nature, so that they don’t overuse it, so it’s sustainable, and they make sure that everything is preserved. So, those are the practices that we need to learn. How can we be and live in harmony with our nature? And it teaches us; nature teaches us to take care of ourselves. You know the way they have practices to take care of themselves, of well-being, of breathing exercises, being there in nature, connecting with yourself, connecting with nature. You learn that when you start taking and caring about climate, when you start caring about the environment, then automatically, you start caring about yourself. You know, when you live, you go to the forest, you go to the beach, it’s clean, you have clean air, then you are taking care of your health, of your well-being. Then, you know, nature is a space that gives you stability, that gives you happiness, that gives you comfort, and that’s what we need to get back on, getting back to that reality. And, you know, COVID made us realise, as you said, that, okay, being in our homes and how you know climate change in a way caused an infectious disease that made us you know get separated from nature, from outdoors, from you know connecting with each other, how you know we are vulnerable, everyone is vulnerable to this climate, to simple disasters, catastrophes. Anything could happen, so we are very vulnerable and the only way for us to increase our resilience is to stand together, support each other as humans recognise that we need to be together, take care of our well-being, make sure we have a support system, we are taking care of ourselves — and the only way to take care of ourselves and take care of our being is to connect with our environment, is to take care of our environment. You know, it’s like Earth is our place. If we take care of it, it will take care of us. You know, we don’t take care of Earth, we pollute it, we cause heat to increase, we cause atmospheric change, then consequences start to show up, then flooding, then disasters, then all of those climate change consequences start to show up. So we need to get back to this harmony with environment, taking care of ourselves and knowing that you know it has to go together. You take care of your well-being, you prioritise your well-being, you take care of the environment, and this way you know we can have a hope for our future generations, to live hopefully in a better way, or in a better world than the one that we have right now.

Rosa R: I think that’s beautifully said, and brings us back to the theme of building resilience by watering our garden, and you already touched upon some ways that we can do this. To conclude, do you have any practical examples of what each of us could do, let’s say, today or tomorrow in our daily life as a researcher, practitioner, activist or human to include these themes of health, climate change and inclusivity in our work, and how can we care for our nature? What could be some steps for that in our everyday life?

Saad U: Yeah, I mean, the thing I learned is that everyone has a role to play when it comes to environment preservation, you know; so, it’s about recognising, what can I do as a human being. If you are a researcher, then what is the field of expertise that I have? You know, if you can do something within your work, that’s good. People working in the private sector — how can I make our company practices more sustainable? How can I push for discussions to make sure we are going into more sustainable ways of doing things? How can we as a group, make, you know, dedicate some time to take care of our environment? It can be a retreat, it can be ecological activities, joining NGOs, joining groups; you know, dedicating yourself to the cause is very important. You know, you don’t have to be a climate expert; you don’t have to be an environmentalist; you can always contribute and engage through volunteering, through doing stuff within your action. If you’re working in urbanism, then how can I learn and empower myself about, you know, green cities? And then, if I’m working in, I don’t know, finance, then learning more about, you know, climate finance; so every aspect, there is some intersection. For example, if you’re working on gender or migration, then about looking at how climate change is affecting your work, and then what can you do about it; so, that’s a good start. Volunteering is also a second thing, and also, you know, connecting with nature on a daily basis is very important, so, learning how can I cherish what I have, you know. If you have a city, if you have a beach, if you have a forest, a garden, if you have a natural resource — make sure to connect with it, cherish it and spend time there, and by doing that, protecting and connecting with our environment, we are directly taking care of ourselves, right? When you are in an environment, you breathe clean air, you connect with the sound of birds, then automatically it’s considered as an investment. You’re investing in your well-being, you’re investing in your mental health, you’re investing in something that will improve your resilience, that you know, have your safe space, consider environment as a safe space for you to detoxify, to connect with nature. So, that’s a very important practice that we can do at least once a week, in the weekend, whatever; go to nature, take care of your mental health, of your well-being. And this way, it helps you remind yourself that, okay, there is a resource that I need to protect, and I need to work together with young people, with all people, not only young people, all communities to push for it. So, it depends on the level of knowledge you have, level of capacity. If you’re very dedicated, you can join NGOs, you can engage in advocacy groups, you can push for policy change, you know; if you don’t have capacity, you can simply do actions once in a month or something, and it’s as simple as doing sustainability practices in your home; reducing having water filters, having, you know, the way that you use your clothes, that you use water, that you consume food, you know, these simple daily actions in life. It’s very important to think, you know, thinking about how I live, thinking about what I eat, thinking about what I consume; those realities about making my lifestyle eco-friendly, that’s something that everyone can do. It’s a small change, but then it teaches you that I am responsible, it teaches you to live in harmony with nature; it’s about you having this mindset, in your life, so you become an environment steward, and a planet steward. And if we are able to do that, talk to our families, talk to our friends, talk to our colleagues, show good examples, and be ambassadors — this is how community change happens. So, let us be environment ambassadors in our daily lives; that’s my take take home message.

Rosa R: Thank you. Saad, I want to wholeheartedly thank you for this discussion and for the work that you’re doing, and I also want to thank Shahzad for having us both on Atmospheric Tales, today.

Saad U: Yeah, thank you, thank you Rosa, and thank you to the listeners; it was a pleasure.

Shahzad G: With that, I would like to thank our guest, Dr Saad Uakkas, and our interviewer, Dr Rosa Rantanen, for joining us on this episode of Atmospheric Tales. Thanks to all our listeners for tuning in. Make sure to subscribe and share!